The Marvel Cinematic Universe has been changing the superhero game for over a decade now, but the stakes were never higher than with the Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame two-parter. The grand finale of Phase 3 was in many ways a farewell to the MCU as fans knew it, and a whole new challenge for visual effects artists responsible for it. Between having to restore old scenes and seamlessly weave new elements into them and dealing with visually complex characters like Thanos and Hulk, they had their work cut out for them. Several members of the VFX team sat down with Screen Rant to discuss the process of bringing Infinity War and Endgame to life, as well as what other Marvel projects they’re excited for fans to see.

Which one of the characters provide the biggest challenge for the team?

Going back to previous Marvel movies, like Thor: Dark World. Can you talk to me about the difficulty of revisiting some of these older films?

Jen Underdah: For Infinity War, we cracked Thanos, which was a big deal for that one because he was in 2/3rds of the movie and had to carry it, performance wise. For Endgame, it was smart Hulk that came about. We had to keep the consistency of Thanos there as our villain, but smart Hulk really was our new character and technological task.

Russell Earl: We knew the bar was going to be very  high, and we knew that for him to be a believable character - this is the first time you’re seeing a talking, thinking Hulk - the big thing was delivering [Mark Ruffalo’s performance].

We had done an initial test. We got the artwork from Marvel bizdev department, which was a great likeness. It was just finding that balance of Ruffalo and Hulk; looking back at all the previous Hulks and making sure we maintained that. But at the same time, we kept the fidelity of Mark’s performance, allowing him to deliver a subtle performance and a very proud performance. We wanted to make sure we were able to capture that, and at the same time retarget that performance onto our Hulk.

That’s a plate from the film back then?

Jen Underdah: Yeah. These guys went back to New York. And going back to Asgard for Dark World, that was handled by Framestore. The big ties were more of the external shots, and the big establishing shots. You’re bringing those assets back online and finding new camera angles for what you didn’t get to see of Asgard.

One waterfall shot, we had first mocked that up to be coming over the mountains that were very Norwegian mountainside with Thor and Rocket sneaking up on the scene. But with maybe about six weeks left to go, the filmmakers were like, “No, we want to see off the edge of the waterfall. We want to be looking right over the observation deck and down the Rainbow Bridge.” So, it was a scramble, and Framestore brought that whole asset back online and got it to work.

How difficult was it to add the Ancient One into the Battle of New York, for example?

Jen Underdah: No, it’s 100% digital, but it’s using that asset. They needed to update that asset to their current pipeline and get all the water and mist effects going, and then add a little digital Heimdall in there. After that, it was just some background replacement and the Rocket that we know and love. But the fun part of that is seeing Thor with his mom and really connecting on a character level with his nervous breakdown. It’s a great scene.

With the Ancient One on the rooftop, a lot of time went into just basically the storytelling of the timestream and the stones going in and out of that. It was all things to serve the story. 

Russell Earl: I mean, it all has its different complexity to it. In that case, we were matching it to the prior films. We restored the assets and brought the first Avengers Hulk back in. A little bit later in the game, actually, part of my daily routine was going through the cut and looking at the shots. One day I was going through it, and I was like, “Oh, what is that shot?” It was the overhead of them, down from the initial 360 shot. That’s where you’re like, “Get those assets restored quick!”

Was there increased pressure for a quick turnaround with Endgame, since it came out a year after Infinity War?

Jen Underdah: And at what point to reveal her, because she’s knocking the chariots down with her fans.

What did you learn from Infinity War that helped inform you for Endgame?

Swen Gillberg: It was built in.

Jen Underdah: To Swen’s point, it was a three year project and that’s kind of how we approached it. Infinity War was just relentless visual effects, and that really took all of our collective energy. Just, holy cow, getting that thing done. So, by the time we got to Endgame, we were in really good shape.

Matt Aitken: We were already halfway through.

Jen Underdah: But we can handle it. We can handle the complexity, we can handle the difficulty level and the changes in the creative. Because, like you were saying, the stakes were so high and the success of Infinity War increased the temperature in the oven. But we were ready for it because of our experience.

Matt Aitken: And with that experience, we had a rapport with you guys as vendors, where we could shorthand things. Interpreting the notes was straightforward, because we had this whole multi-show history of experience to draw on. That really paid off, as well. On the Marvel side, it was the same team all the way through.

Russell Earl: That was huge, because a lot of times you don’t want to show stuff too early because you’re worried that you’ll lose confidence. In this case, it was like, “Okay, I’m going to show it to them.” I don’t know if it’ll get there, but at least we’ll get a decision as to whether that’s the right or wrong path.

Swen Gillberg: It was less warm up with personnel, and also we shot both movies back to back so we’re posting the first one while we’re still shooting the second one. All the teams are still going, which is the only reason we were able to do a year turnaround.

Endgame had that large final battle scene and, to this day, I still can’t find this Howard the Duck reference.

Matt Aitken: Well, the [shorthand] communication was a big part of it. For me, it was my first show working with the Russos, so it was getting to know what they like. And a big part of that is that they want everything to be very grounded in reality, they want everything to be natural; they don’t want things to be too fantastical. And this comes from Kevin and from the studio as well.

That can make things harder, because you haven’t got a whole lot of smoke and mirrors that you can hide things under. Things have to work on their own basis, and they have to be under plain lights, if you like. It’s more challenging, but when things work, they really work. I think you’re being asked to work at a higher level, but as a result, there’s a huge amount of satisfaction with the work that comes out of that process.

Jen Underdah: I think for me, it’s less that those two were one after the other than it is having worked with the Russo brothers on Winter Soldier and Civil War before taking on this project as a whole. These were the warm ups, because at the time we thought Winter Soldier was the hardest thing we’d ever received. That helicarrier battle up in the air, with it crashing into the water? Oh, dear. That was a lot. And then we get to Civil War, and we’ve got the whole airport fight…

Russell Earl: Each film built upon the last. lYou couldn’t have done Civil War if you hadn’t done Winter Soldier. It was sort getting to know the Russos, like Matt was saying, [and how] they want everything to be grounded.  Even if it’s a fantastical effect, you need to find the science or the physics to back it up. We were constantly looking for real world stuff we can ground it in.

Jen Underdah: It was learning from those projects that then informed the massive project that was Infinity War and Endgame.

Are there still more Easter eggs in the film that people haven’t found that you guys know are in there?

Matt Aitken: That’s not such a bad thing, because he is only in like 17 or maybe 18 frames of the film. So it’s pretty fleeting.

Marvel’s always one-upping itself, and films from the same franchise can have different genres in them, like Captain America. Does it make your job harder to deal with tonal changes between movies in the MCU?

Matt Aitken: Tons. No, people have pretty much found them.

After Endgame, do you breathe a little easier going into the next Marvel project?

Jen Underdah: No, each movie is its own thing. Each director, each team, designer and DP, they’re all bringing their tools and their flavor to the project. Our job is derivative to a degree; we’re just trying to realize their vision and make sure that all happens. I don’t think it’s any different from one movie to the next.

Swen Gillberg: If anything, it’s better. It’s something new and refreshing, and it’s a new challenge.

Is there a Marvel project, whether you’re working on it or not, that you personally are looking forward to?

Russell Earl: Yeah, I think so. You put all this work and effort into it, and you’re hoping that you’re going to meet the expectations of the fans. Once you’re done, you’re waiting for those first reactions to come in. I think it worked out?

How connected are the streaming shows to the cinematic universe? Unlike with Marvel TV, are the streaming shows pretty much one shared universe with the MCU?

Russell Earl: I know I’m looking forward to Black Widow, which I think is the next one.

Jen Underdah: Yeah, Black Widow. But also the streaming shows. To be honest with you, I love this new format that Marvel’s trying out and how it’s gonna advance the MCU.

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Jen Underdah: Yeah, it’s all Kevin. There you go.

Matt Aitken: As a visual effects facility, we used to just work on feature films. But we’re loving working in the streaming space as well, and I think there’s a potential that we will work on that side of things in the future. I don’t know that anything is confirmed in that space, but it’s pretty exciting to see that coming up. It’s a whole lot more exciting work for us to potentially be involved, so that’s really great.

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